This year, Chain Reaction is doing monthly series diving into different topics and themes in crypto. To start things off, this month we’re focusing on NFTs. For this week’s episode, Jacquelyn interviewed Devin Finzer, the CEO of NFT marketplace OpenSea. He co-founded OpenSea in 2017 and it quickly climbed to become one of the most well known – and well funded – NFT marketplaces. Two years ago, it raised $300 million in a Series C round at a $13.3 billion post-money valuation, bringing its total capital raised to over $400 million. Some of its investors include firms Andreessen Horowitz and Paradigm as well as celebrities like Kevin Durant and Ashton Kutcher. Despite the NFT market’s trading volume falling from all time highs in late 2021 early 2022, OpenSea is still pushing forward even though other NFT marketplaces have popped up and challenged their dominance.
This year, Chain Reaction is doing monthly series diving into different topics and themes in crypto. To start things off, this month we’re focusing on NFTs.
For this week’s episode, Jacquelyn interviewed Devin Finzer, the CEO of NFT marketplace OpenSea.
He co-founded OpenSea in 2017 and it quickly climbed to become one of the most well known – and well funded – NFT marketplaces. Two years ago, it raised $300 million in a Series C round at a $13.3 billion post-money valuation, bringing its total capital raised to over $400 million. Some of its investors include firms Andreessen Horowitz and Paradigm as well as celebrities like Kevin Durant and Ashton Kutcher.
Despite the NFT market’s trading volume falling from all time highs in late 2021 early 2022, OpenSea is still pushing forward even though other NFT marketplaces have popped up and challenged their dominance.
Jacquelyn and Devin discuss the importance of web3 games integrating NFTs, Web2.0 firms launching their own digital collectibles and challenges the marketplace faces.
They also dive into:
(0:00) Welcome to Chain Reaction
(3:36) Launching OpenSea before NFTs took off
(7:55) Expanding NFTs core product categories
(9:44) NFT games to drive adoption
(11:39) Post NFT-boom industry atmosphere
(14:37) Keeping Retail investors engaged in NFTs
(19:30) Staying competitive in the NFT marketplace space
(20:24) Rapid Fire
(27:01) NFT use cases in 2024
(28:20) OpenSea’s core mission
(30:15) Advice for people in the crypto industry
Jacquelyn Melinek 0:00
Hey everyone, its Jacqueline Melinek Welcome to Chain Reaction a show that unpacks and dives deep into the latest trends and news breaking things down block by block for the crypto curious. This year we're doing monthly series diving into different topics and themes and crypto. And to start things off this month we're focusing on NFTs. I'm interviewing some of the biggest NFT players and founders about how they've weathered the booms and busts in the sector, what they're focused on and what could be next for the industry. Hope you enjoy.
Today's guest is Devin Finzer, the CEO of NFT marketplace OpenSea. Devin co-founded OpenSea in 2017. And it quickly claimed to be one of the most well known and well funded NFT marketplaces. Two years ago, it raised $300 million in a Series C round at a $13.3 billion post money valuation bringing its total total capital raised to over $400 million. Some of its investors include firms like Andreessen Horowitz, and Paradigm, as well as celebrities like Kevin Durant and Ashton Kutcher. Despite the NFT markets trading volume falling from all time highs in late 2021, early 2022 open sea is still pushing forward even though other marketplaces like Magic Eden has popped up and challenge their dominance. But as the tides changed, pun intended, were interested in hearing what the company has been up to and how its mapping out its road ahead. With that said, Devin, welcome to the show.
Devin Finzer 1:32
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. And
Jacquelyn Melinek 1:34
before we get to everything NFT related, we'd like to start by asking our guests can you tell me about one of the most interesting people you've met in the past 12 months in crypto, and what did you learn from them?
Devin Finzer 1:45
Oh, man, that's a good question. Um, let's see most interesting people that I've met in crypto in the last 12 months? Well, I'll I won't give a specific name. But I think one one sort of category of person and individual is just the the luxury brand, the head of luxury brands sort of dipping their toe in the NFT space have been having some meeting with with various brands, this is this is kind of top of mind recently. And it's just interesting, kind of the whole spectrum of things that you can do in the luxury space, we tend to sort of think of the physical world of luxury. But there's this whole kind of digital universe that is really just starting to be explored. But it's impressive. What some of these brands like LVMH, for example, have started doing with NFT's. And, you know, the I think the general theme that I think just sort of dominates the NFT space is that well, you know, certainly the market has changed a lot the innovation and the amount of activity just on the ground floor of people building stuff, you know, everyone from smaller webserie creators to mid size gaming projects to bigger brands, the innovation just continues to be really strong. So yeah, I always I always feel like every time I meet a partner who's coming in from outside of crypto and into the NFT space, I'm just kind of blown away by, you know, just the level of awareness and education and sort of thoughtfulness that these bigger partners are bringing to the space, especially as it compares to a year or two ago, and people were just first kind of wrapping their head around it.
Jacquelyn Melinek 3:31
So I'm glad you brought that up, because I actually have a question on that later. But before we get into that, I want to dial back to like day one of OpenSea. Yeah, as I mentioned, you launched it years ago, back when NFT's weren't really a big deal. Like at all. I don't know if you felt differently. Sure. There were crypto Kitties and crypto punks, and things like that in the air. But yeah, it was really tiny. So I guess the question I have for you is like, what did you see? Then that made you want to start OpenSea?
Devin Finzer 4:01
Yeah, and I think it's a great point, because, you know, well, no, it's certainly true that NFT's were really tiny back when we started in late 2017. And really just the first use cases were coming about, I would actually say that the market is still really early, right. In terms of what we saw back back then, we were really excited about NFT's as this highly generic technology that could be used to represent any digital item, right? That could be an item inside of the game, it could be a piece of digital art. It could be an event ticket could be a domain name, it could even be a digital representation of a physical item. And so we really, you know, from the beginning, we saw this as more than just collectibles and profile pictures. Actually, the beginning we didn't even really think the profile pictures would be a thing. It was sort of a brand new market that kind of emerged organically. But we always had this really big vision of like NFT's can represent all sorts of different things. And it's funny that, you know, as you fast forward to 2023, and 2024. Well, we've seen this explosion in the NFT market, particularly in 2021, with profile pictures and art, and all of these exciting, you know, sort of early use cases, we still have so much further to go, in terms of representing all of the kind of wide array of things that NFtT's can represent. And gaming is an example of a category that's still really early. So anyway, you know, to answer your question more directly, what we saw was this really powerful, basic, primitive, and all of these different use cases that could be represented, and that just got us really excited. And, you know, we always kind of technologists, and startup founders, are always a little more willing to kind of play around with the early toys, even if they haven't gotten mass adoption, yet. I think that's kind of what makes founders unique is that they tend to be really early into markets. And certainly, we were really early into open sea, but we were just so inspired by the opportunity and kind of the innovation that was happening in this space that we ended up, you know, continuing to build from 2017 and 2018 2019 2020. And then finally into 2021, when we really saw the rocket ship growth for the space. Yeah. Do
Jacquelyn Melinek 6:25
you think OpenSea follow the initial vision that you guys had for all the opportunities here? Or has it kind of shifted into more focus on those like PFP aspects, like you mentioned,
Devin Finzer 6:37
I would say we've actually really stuck to the original vision. And I think that's a unique thing among startups, it's not always the best approach. But it has been for us. And, you know, we haven't built a lot of features that that only apply to the sort of collectible PFP part market, we have built well, some. But a lot of the features that we build, we view as these more generic building blocks that work across all sorts of different use cases. And even though some of those use cases are still more in their infancy, we think that eventually they'll you know, it's really the approach of kind of letting 1000 Flowers bloom, and letting some of these earlier use cases, experiment with the platform and see how they can take off. So we've really Yeah, I'd say that we've, we sort of started with this belief that NFT's would be super general and super generic. And every single feature we build is either, you know, a generic horizontal building block, or it's something that can at least be used across, you know, a couple of different verticals. And so, you know, particularly over the next year, we'll be building more and more of these, you know, vertical specific use cases, but we tend to build them in a pretty generic ways.
Jacquelyn Melinek 7:54
You talked about event tickets before in some of these things that you just mentioned. I'm curious, what are the expansion efforts going forward? Like, why Where does open see see the future for its core product categories?
Devin Finzer 8:10
Yeah, so a couple of different areas. The first is gaming is an area we've always been really excited about, really, from day one. If you remember back to 2017. The first use cases you mentioned was crypto kitties, and it was a game. And from there, you know, the gaming community, it was the web three gaming community was really small, but it was sort of the most passionate group of folks who are interested in kind of pushing the space forward. Now, gaming has grown to be huge, there's been billions of dollars invested in web three gaming. And a lot of the sort of investments that were made in 2020 2021, are just starting to come to market and just starting to kind of actually find product market fit with real users. So so that's an area where we're really excited. You know, we we've been involved everywhere from just, you know, supporting new primary launches for games with our primary drops product, to building out some of these sort of utility oriented features, like the ability to redeem an NFT on open sea. And then just all the kind of generic building blocks like onboarding and user experience that benefit the gaming industry. So I'd highlight that as as one of our bigger bets. And then, you know, things like physical items, representatives entities, I could go on and on about as well. But there's a whole sort of host of other things that we're excited about, but I like gaming is a really big one. So
Jacquelyn Melinek 9:44
do you think Gaming will be the big NFT driver for 2024?
Devin Finzer 9:48
I think that was a really good shot. Yeah. I mean, the interesting thing about gaming is that, you know, doesn't necessarily always show up in the volume numbers because sort of inherent only a game economy does thrive on having, you know, gamers being able to come in and buy something for $1 or $2. So it's not necessarily going to have sort of the flashy effect that maybe a profile picture project selling for thousands of dollars each might have and, and so sometimes that actually flies a little under the radar. And it takes, it also takes a while for games to develop and find, you know, find really a good fit with their audience. So I see it as more of this kind of, you know, it's less of that, you know, hype cycle based, trended more or just the, the gradual development of the space and the maturation of the types of games. And if you look at like, you know, a snapshot of the type of the types of gameplay experiences that you can have in web three today, versus just last year, it's like, it's night and day. So in some ways, I'd argue it's already kind of, you know, driving web three adoption, it's just maybe not as sort of, you know, visible as other other use cases for NFT's.
Jacquelyn Melinek 11:05
Yeah, I agree with that I we've had guests on in the past who have talked about Web3 gaming, and how it's kind of like, either baked in and like, you don't even realize it's a blockchain based game or web three, game, whatever you want to call it. Or it's like very prominent in your face, you know, you're using like a web three game. And I think, to your point that these things will take time, because it's not easy to make a game unless it's like something like angry, not Angry Birds, the one with the, you know what I'm talking about older pigeon, Flappy Birds. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think I definitely agree with you on that point. You've been in this space for longer than I have longer than a lot of people. I'm curious, what do you think has been the biggest surprise for you being in the NFT ecosystem after the boom, maybe?
Devin Finzer 11:52
After the boom, um, I think one, you know, pleasant surprise was post NFT. Boom, you did see some larger companies sort of, you know, move on from the space for sure. But generally, I would say that even the bigger brands, who you might expect to be sort of Fairweather Friends of NFT's continue to, you know, and I think the ones that are most dedicated and most interested in space, just continue to build things. So you know, I think whenever there's a hype cycle in crypto, you have a rush of people who get really excited about it, because maybe the price is moving up, or like, you know, they hear about it from their friends or whatever. And then, as the market kind of cools down, you have a lot of those people leave. But I was surprised that just I think what's what's really captivating about NF T's is in contrast to some of the other areas of crypto where it really is purely about financial services and speculation and prices and all those sorts of things with NFT's. The technology itself is just so invigorating and so exciting that when you sort of join the space and get interested in it for the first time, you tend to stick around for the sort of long term opportunity in the technology. And that was actually, you know, that's kind of what my story as well, and sort of a maybe at a smaller scale. I got interested in crypto because, you know, a lot a lot of my friends were talking about it. And, you know, it was true that the price of Aetherium and price of Bitcoin was going up. So it's like, okay, what, what's going on here, but then as I read the Ethereum white paper, and particularly as I learned about use cases, like NFT's, I was like, Okay, this is interesting, purely from a societal technological like trend. And I think I've been pleasantly surprised at the degree to which that has resonated with companies building in the space, from the really small startup to the larger, like brands that you know, are maybe a little more traditional and more conservative.
Jacquelyn Melinek 14:00
I could partially agree with you on that. I think, you know, NFT's have that speculative nature, some people really buy into them, because they want to, like, you know, make the next board a yacht club by and then there's also the people who end up becoming the quote unquote, community members, which is kind of like a joke that you bought something you thought it was good, do well, and then you just become a community member. And as you mentioned, with the brand aspects, we've seen social media platforms like Instagram, commit to NFT's and decommit. We've seen other web two firms launch NFT collections, and then do nothing after but then we've also seen ones that are like, extremely committed, like you said, so I guess on that front, what needs to happen to keep these brands and industries and also just like retail investors engaged in the long term and not just seeing this as a fad?
Devin Finzer 14:47
Yeah, I think one thing where it's been a mixed bag, we've both made a lot of progress, but we still have a lot of room to grow is making web three as excessive Bull to regular users as the rest of the web and the rest of E commerce and what I like to kind of call the, the holy grail of, of web3 or NFT's or crypto, which is like getting the same, you know, onboarding experience, the same smoothness of user experience that you certainly can get if you go full on web two, and you just have like, credit cards, and like, you know, you sort of fake the NFT experience or custody, you know, those sorts of things. But that real amazing user onboarding experience, combined with the benefits and, and core native value propositions of web three, which is like interoperability across different platforms, the ability to own an item and resell it on a third party marketplace, all of those really amazing any ownership of your own data, like all of those sorts of things. So I think the opportunity for the space from our lens is building a feature set that allows people to get into web3, both really easily, but also in a way that they can experience the benefits. And that was not true in 2021, it really was the case that in order to participate, you had to be you had to sort of level up your expertise and and download Metamask, or download your own wallet, figured out how to get crypto into figuring out how transactions work all of those things. And as we build during the sort of NFT bear market, now the infrastructure is at a place. And actually, one thing I mentioned was just transaction cost, right? Like Dubai. And yeah, it is still expensive on theory on but we have layer two solutions now, which reduce that cost significantly. So. So point being what I think, I think one of the building blocks that needs to really mature and it's sort of our core focus of the company is, again, getting that holy grail where we have really amazing user onboarding, experience and user experience, generally, combined with the sort of power of web three and the interoperability and marketplace activity associate with them.
Jacquelyn Melinek 17:08
There was actually something that someone said to me recently, where developers are building now for users and use cases as opposed to like, blockchains. And I feel like it kind of applies to that, for sure. I'm curious on that front, we kind of talked a little bit about like, speculation and everything, how much does NFT sales volume have an impact on your business? And like, how do you navigate that if it is substantial?
Devin Finzer 17:35
Yeah, I mean, it certainly has an impact on sort of the revenue of the business and in the business model. But it isn't something that we are laser focused on, I would say what we're laser focused on is really improving, you know, core product improvements, we really do view this space as early and as such, like, so many of the things that we get to build are, you know, if you work at a traditional tech company, your like, you know, you're tweaking the text on a landing page, or you're like Optima, A/B testing, you know, different signup flow or something like that. For us, we're literally like going from like, You got to download meta mask and have a seed phrase to, okay, you can actually just sign up with an email and actually make a purchase, right? So we're, we're making those like, really big step function, product improvements. And so we're less like, Okay, we need to do this, because it's going to, like, change our volume numbers. And like that, if, if there were kind of things that we, you could do that, that were kind of like that it would be it'd be a different a different type of business. And, and then the other thing that we really focus on is just, you know, as opposed to just volumes, how our users engaging, and our users going from signing up to transacting, or users coming back and using the product are using users buying interesting new NFT's are and how much innovation is there at the product development phase for projects, right, like, are the games getting better? Are are the art projects getting more interesting? Are new brands coming in? All of those signals, I think are actually healthier things to look at, than just you know, did the price of Bored Ape go up? You know, and then that sort of led to higher volumes for the company and for the company.
Jacquelyn Melinek 19:25
I think accessibility is definitely something people look for especially new entrants to the web three worlds. I know for people in my life that are not in crypto, if they had to download a Metamask wallet and send crypto to it just to buy an NFT I think I lose them at the first word Metamask. Like, we wouldn't even get to step two or three, you know, and now the fact that you could just go and buy it makes it extremely more accessible. And I think that's something that some platforms don't have. So on that note, how does open sea compete with other NFT marketplaces to stand out whether it's through accessing ability new offerings, features products, like we talked about earlier, and kind of like, remain competitive to have that market share and trading volume because you want people to use open sea? Totally.
Devin Finzer 20:12
So I think a couple things. One is, we built enough services on OpenSea that, that our platform really can be a one stop destination, one stop shop for all of your sort of NFT use cases, right? You know, we've made significant improvements in accessibility around the wallet layer, and just user onboarding. So you can, I think open tea is kind of the best place to start for new users, also, just on the user education front. So articles about, you know, learning about what NF T's are, and like, what are the use cases, all those sorts of things. So, you know, it's a great place to start. And then it's also really a great place to build out both your sort of portfolio of, of your inventory as a user. And also, if you're a project, you're you're sort of one stop shop for what we call OpenSea studio, which is the ability to go, you know, launch, or create a contract, create entities create a drop, and then do a primary launch on OpenSea, as well as have the secondary marketplace on OpenSea. The other thing that I would highlight here is we've made a lot of investments over the years and trust and safety. So a big problem in the NFT space is, you know, people will have, and this is a problem that was was pretty particularly difficult for us early on, because we had so much of the sort of eyeball share of people coming to the space, you know, people would basically create an NFT that looks visually identical to, you know, board, eight, or whatever it is, and try to kind of pawn it off. As you know, as the real thing, we've invested a lot in ensuring that any sort of fraudulent or problematic collections get automatically removed from the website. So I think the combination of all of those things, really make up and see this kind of place where you can reliably, you know, come to come to the platform and kind of get all of the all you need from it. Whether you're a user, you know, a first time user, curious user, or even more of an advanced user, or you're a creator or project that wants to go on launch. You can you can kind of you can rely on us for for sort of the full spectrum of capabilities and functionality.
Jacquelyn Melinek 22:38
Do you kind of see open sea as NFT marketplace for earlier crypto users or like the seasoned like experts? Or it's for everyone, then
Devin Finzer 22:51
I would say for everyone? Yeah, I mean, so we have both a platform, you know, the open sea proper, which is more sort of dedicated to someone who's newer or curious or more of the collector type. And then we also have OpenSea Pro, which is dedicated to the more advanced user, one thing that we'll be doing over the next couple of months is unifying these platforms so that it's easier to move between the sort of collect your experience in the advanced experience right now, there are two separate platforms, you can obviously connect both your wallet to either one. But there's a little more, you know, discontinuity between moving from one to another. So yeah, I mean, our goal, I know that, you know, there's there's a lot of value in focus as a startup and really targeting a specific user base. But we really do think that NFT's are early enough that we can service, you know, the full spectrum of users. And obviously, there are going to be people who want, you know, a, a certain type of UI that maybe isn't quite what OPenSea is and those people, you know, there are other options. But we really do want to provide a platform that's generic enough that it will appeal to the full spectrum of users.
Jacquelyn Melinek 24:08
Yeah. All right. You don't have to make everyone happy. Devon. Exactly. Okay, on that note, we're gonna take a quick break before we get into the rapid fire segment. And we are back now it's time for our rapid fire segment where we ask Devin some quick questions and hopefully get some quick responses. To start Devin, what was the NFT or NFT project that you remember first getting you really excited about getting into this space?
Devin Finzer 24:35
Definitely Crypto Kitties. Yeah, I just thought it was really fun. It was like the the crypto kitties were really cute. And I thought it was interesting. On one. Yeah, but
Jacquelyn Melinek 24:48
all right. What are the three most surprising use cases you've seen for NF T's if you had to list them?
Devin Finzer 24:57
software licenses was really interesting one So, basically the ability to you know, own a piece of software and use that software as long as you own the NFT. Super cool. I think just seeing like, crypto conference tickets catch on, I think it's, I think it's a really cool one because you already have people over in crypto and, you know, being able to, it's a little easier than needing to kind of go directly to mainstream with, with like, mainstream concert tickets or concert music festival tickets. So, so targeting crypto conferences, I think is a really cool use case. And then the third one, generative art, I think is just really cool. I mean, we obviously have profile pictures and collectibles and all that stuff. But there's just been so much interesting work being done on like, using the attributes of the blockchain itself, to generate unique art. And it's something that has gotten you know, sort of the the people who are deepest in the space really excited because it's kind of nerdy and fun and interesting.
Jacquelyn Melinek 26:08
Yes, sir? No, do you think NF T's need to be renamed to something else?
Devin Finzer 26:13
Not at this point. Now.
Jacquelyn Melinek 26:15
How many NF T's Do you own?
Devin Finzer 26:19
Oh, man, um, probably like, a couple 100 or so. But a bunch of them are just, you know, me, like fiddling around and testing stuff.
Jacquelyn Melinek 26:29
Which one's your favorite?
Devin Finzer 26:33
Um, I do really I like my cool cat, which is my, which is my Twitter profile. All
Jacquelyn Melinek 26:40
right. Given that this is a TechCrunch podcast, I've got to ask you, Devin is open see looking to raise additional capital?
Devin Finzer 26:49
I'm not at the moment. Okay.
Jacquelyn Melinek 26:52
But when you guys do you'll, you'll come to us for it. There we go. All right, kind of stepping out of rapid fire, I would love to know, to wrap things up. What other core use cases for NFT's do you think will be the most prominent and 2024? Out of all the ones that we've discussed?
Devin Finzer 27:10
Yeah, I mean, I think gaming is the one that I'm most excited about. The other one that I don't think we talked as much about, which I would definitely highlight is the idea of physical items represented as cheats. So you know, the, the sort of way that this can work is you have a I mean, if you look at existing marketplaces for rare physical sneakers that are actually quite vibrant, right, there's a whole community of people that that like to sort of buy and sell those sorts of physical things, obviously, we talked a little bit about the luxury market as well. And so one of the really cool use cases for entities is you take a physical pair of sneakers, you create an NFT, you can buy and sell that NFT, as many times as it can move around from person to person, before it's actually redeemed for the physical item. And so we've been recently working with, you know, some platforms on partnering and doing more launches in this sort of physical digital collectible space. And I think, you know, I just think there's a lot more opportunity to explore and a lot more opportunity for growth there as well.
Jacquelyn Melinek 28:20
And then looking specifically at OpenSea, I asked about the future of the company's core product earlier on in the show, but what would you say is your core mission that you want to have in 2024? And beyond?
Devin Finzer 28:33
Yeah, I mean, I think long term, our mission is really to foster open digital economies. And so it's a very broad vision. But it does encapsulate the fact that we're really building NFT's as, and we're building infrastructure around NFT's as a very generic building block for all sorts of different economies. It's not just about art and profile pictures, it's really about sort of representing all sorts of different things on chain, you know, all of the kinds of use cases we mentioned today, and then, you know, some things that we haven't even imagined yet. And in that world, you know, of sort of free market, open digital economies, you know, looks very different than the the traditional web to economy where users come on to centralized platforms, they sort of post data onto those platforms for free, but then the platform's, monetize them through advertising or other other means. But the data is always owned by the platform, right? In this new economy, users have a lot more control over their data. You just have control over their NFT's and their digital items. And they can move between different marketplaces and platforms. And ultimately, we think that that's really good for users, and it enables brand new use cases that people haven't imagined, enables all sorts of innovation and enables new jobs in the future. So you know, and tes Are we really think of them as this kind of generic building block for whole brand new digital economies? And, you know, that's, I think we're still we're kind of at the beginning of that trend.
Jacquelyn Melinek 30:12
Yeah, I love that. I'm excited to see what comes with that. On that note, Devin, can you leave us with a piece of advice, maybe something you've carried with you throughout your time in crypto.
Devin Finzer 30:20
I mean, maybe the advice for people who are exploring web three and crypto would be a to really go deep in the space, make sure that you like, you're not just sort of reading about NFT's at a high level, but you know, you're actually going and like reading the code, if you're technical or like, obviously, using the products and, you know, buying things and like trying them out, and, and going into sort of the more maybe esoteric use cases. But yeah, just just the sort of depth of, you know, I think, if you if you just sort of read about it, and you just like scratch the surface, you don't necessarily get the kind of nuggets of wisdom that you would get if you really go deep in space. And then the second piece of advice may be for people who are either curious about crypto when three, or who are already in the space is just, yeah, I think like thinking on long time horizon. So that's something that I am very proud of us doing it open. See, we started building really early on. But we knew that, you know, people tend to overestimate how fast technology gets adopted. And but then they you know, on the flip side, they kind of underestimated how big those trends can be. Right. That's the that's the sort of age old quote. So, you know, my advice would just be make sure that you're kind of operating and building on a long enough time horizon that you can really be part of the, you know, the broader trend.
Jacquelyn Melinek 31:54
I love that. All right. Thanks, Devin, so much for coming on the show. This has been fun.
Devin Finzer 31:59
Awesome. Thanks so much.
Jacquelyn Melinek 32:02
We'll be back every week with the top news on the crypto ecosystem. Catch us on Tuesdays for interviews with experts in the web three space. You could keep up with us on Spotify, Apple Music or your favorite pod platform and subscribe to our companion newsletter also called chain reaction. Links to the newsletter and the stories we talked about can be found in our show notes. And be sure to follow us at chain underscore reaction on Twitter.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai